tv [untitled] December 1, 2011 4:00pm-4:30pm EST
there's a hole in the food hard to study for three bodies on it so it was hard for your studies to true but it's. breaking up is hard to do the u.s. and pakistan relationship is on life support so what happens of ties between the two countries collapsed completely. and at the massacre of the u.s. doesn't want you to know about thousands of taliban prisoners of war killed and then burry both by dirt and paperwork because according to the bush administration all's fair in the war on terror. and speaking of paul's fairburn on the waterboarding and enhanced interrogation
tactics that's right some u.s. senators don't see a problem with returning to our tortured past. it is thursday december first four pm going to washington d.c. i'm liz wall you're watching artsy. well start off today by taking a look at a relationship growing more troubled relations between the united states and pakistan seems to have reached a new level this after nato forces accidentally killed at least twenty four pakistani soldiers now pakistan is taking action kicking us aircraft out of the country the relationship between the two countries already rocky after the u.s. swooped in and a raid to capture and kill osama bin laden now the pakistani prime minister warns there will be no more quote business as usual with washington president obama had this to say about relations with the country we will constantly
evaluate our relationship with pakistan. based on is overall this helping to protect americans and our interests but there's no doubt that. you know we're not going to feel comfortable we have a long term strategic relationship with pakistan if we don't think that they're mindful of our interests them so our ties between the u.s. and pakistan on the brink of breaking are the corresponding marina poor and i and takes a closer look at the strained relationship relationships are never easy but when it comes to the partnership between america and pakistan there's sugardaddy of this geo political alliance has turned out to be islamic bods most dangerous friend in a post nine eleven world focused on doing forces with the u.s.
in the war on terror receiving roughly eighteen billion dollars in return over the past ten years yet hundreds of civilians have been killed in view us drone strikes targeting terrorist most recently nato had to admit it killed two dozen pakistani soldiers. this sent protesters onto the streets of islamabad torquing an effigy of president barack obama burning american flags and demanding an immediate use from its american partner this is hardly the first part of the pakistani sovereignty has been infringed by the united states is not the first time that pakistani citizens have been killed by the united states and its allies it seems to be the case now that you know it regards pakistan as a kind of free fire zone in which routes. through. the countries.
with no need for polish your redress neither has called the incident tragic and an intended promising to investigate the killings the pakistani government has demanded the u.s. speaking in air base used for drone attacks it's also closed a vital u.s. military supply route to afghanistan a third to one half of all supplies that go to the nato forces go through pakistan so this is going to have a major impact there's no question about it the biggest rift between the two countries came six months ago when the u.s. violated pakistani sovereignty to assassinate osama bin laden with lost respect because people now fear the united states because we're like a drunken person will go to war anywhere if you threaten us now pakistan's prime minister has come out there would be no more business as usual with washington there are clear choices pretty problematic historically speaking either to expand
the war and comment or point of the problem is not going to be a draw it triggered the poleward war and warming and warning everyone pakistan has been america's main ally in the region for decades but constant abuse of the partnership by the u.s. has driven a wedge between the two many believe that pakistan's case highlights that a u.s. bearing gifts while later stop at nothing to get what it wants or enough we're not artsy new york. and to talk more about the implications of all of this on a whore and contributing editor on legal and national security matters for harper's magazine and welcome scott would you say that u.s. pakistani relations have had an on time well. i think there's a question about this since i dispense independence the relationship has never been asked for and it says right now this last year two thousand and eleven has been the
rockiest year yet in a relationship and you know there are very specific incidents that punctuate the first to be early in the year we had. the raymond davis. acting cia station chief who shot and killed two pakistanis who turned out to be intelligence so exhilarates then of course we had the osama bin ladin. which i think from the perspective of us was a must have to be done and fully justified but nevertheless was hugely embarrassing to talk a sense of course it really revealed the fact that he was there obviously operating under the protection of senior military figures and the rate with or without getting permission from the pakistani authorities and then we have this latest incident of waiting the death of twenty four pakistani soldiers so we have two incidents we really are serious mistakes that the americans may have that's
seriously degraded the ship now we're seeing pakistan and if taking action they order the u.s. to get out and take their drones along with than is this a sign that pakistan is now more willing to stand up to washington. well i think you know we have to realize first of all that the pakistani state is not a monolith in fact we can view it as split down the middle there is an enormous military and intelligence establishment the general staff and b. i.s.i. that has for decades been either in fact it's worn by government by pushing out of popularly elected civilian government or it's been a sort of interstate that really runs the country from within that's the relationship that is the most stretched at this point of where our students are than is the relationship with be elected civilian government and not actually is
pretty good not just standing in remarks you just heard from the prime minister. so it kind of they do break if this continues to go down how what does that mean for the war on terror you know there's fears that the pakistani military my cooperate with the taliban on the other display mean. well i think we have to if you would first of all and a larger geo political context because certainly figures in as i'm about to so i can stand has carefully cultivated over decades and alternative great our relationship and that is with china and i mean the attlee after this water incident there were reports circulating in part a standard the chinese would be given a go ahead to construct a naval facility on a sandy soil so i think you see that development. bill i think it's unlikely to
see a complete terminations of the relationship with the united states i think it's more likely that you'd see i guess any back down on the extensive operations that the u.s. intelligence community have in markets. the cia the cia clearly there's hundreds of covert operatives there it's been operating and the new numbers world war two hundred seventy two teams right by the road since two thousand forces for several years but the united states has a code word iraq should the word operation but there's really no big word about it it's reported on it's really understood it's widely discussed or there that year i think most likely that's going to be the particular targets of the study military service now scott please stand by i want to get back to you in just
a bed and i want to turn now to what could be one of the worst atrocities and the war on terror get many americans don't even know what happened this month marks the ten year anniversary of the massacre that took place in afghanistan it happened at dosh the laili the local it's located in the desert of northern afghanistan near shah bargain charges that an afghan warlord took custody of thousands of taliban prisoners from u.s. forces and then allowed them to die witnesses say that prisoners were crammed into metal containers and transported to the shark and prison for it but many of them didn't make it to their destination alive over a three day period some witnesses say up to three thousand suffocated to death or were sprayed by bullets their bodies thrown into a mass grave at the site general of dual rashid dostum the afghan leader that the charge of this operation happens to be a u.s. ally it's unclear what role the u.s. played by u.s. forces were stationed nearby and some witnesses say the united states knew all
about that. now at the time the bush administration refused to look into the incident claiming it was an internal matter for the afghan authorities despite a promise by president obama to investigate ten years later what exactly happened and the role the u.s. the u.s. played in the events remains a mystery i want to bring scholar in back into the conversation for more on this stop ten years later many questions and not very many answers if these allegations are true why is there so little information relating to what could be one of the biggest massacres on the war in afghanistan. i think there's no doubt about it this is the big war crime that occurred in the course of the war so far and that the united states is actually a result of the good record of dealing with work crimes avoiding its own or says that we have some high profile marshals from within just the last few weeks.
killings of afghan civilians for instance the very firm position about this at the outset saying we had nothing to kill it was just. we have no information about it it's not a response this is a decision taken by the wolfowitz at the pentagon and by others affectively three separate occasions to shut down any inquiry. and now the evidence that's come out is is i think at this point clear on some point so i think it's reasonably clear now that at least a thousand people were killed maybe there are three thousand of them without very large number it's clear that that cargo containers that would have been supplied arranged by the united states played a role in part of the massacre that made people more than two hundred people so much more than two hundred fifty people were forced into many of these containers
and many of them are i and this phrase also clear that us paramilitary units from the cia potentially also the assets were present on the scene the fact there was a prison riot there which one american was killed so we know they were there and we know that they were observing what happened and there were some reports about whether iraq obama when he came in. was going to happen is investigated but so far we've seen no results from that and i think it's troubling that as you just mentioned there have been several attempts to hide. what happened. the obama administration they promised to look into it but really nothing substantial has come from kind of come to fruition why is it that there that any attempt to investigate this seems to come to a dead ends. well i've been asking about this i mean for instance i know that there were congressional investigators were following physicians for human rights and
a great job following up on that i've been told that there was a u.s. government investigation but i just see no evidence of the investigation or of any outcome from it and the big question is the one you you raise with with president obama and so about a different instruction for an investigation why is there no report. and do you think that there is sufficient evidence to prove that a crime was in fact committed i think there's absolutely no question about the fact the the evidence tree stand is when you talk about people who are prisoners were being held in the custody of a military force there are certain presumptions that come to light when you have one thousand people who surrendered or are being held in custody and who die under all circumstances there's a strong presumption of a war crime those are rules that we established ourselves during world war two and that's what really comes to focus on general custer and who was in charge of those
forces no doubt about that and i think you know there's a political dynamic going on here because i think the united states and the u.s. nato allies believe that those is an essential part of the puzzle in afghanistan for us to be brought into this government yes to be reconciled with out and they believe there's no way making a lasting peace in afghanistan is right i suspect very strongly that the whole matter has been swept under the carpet as a way of appeasing those and that's a tragedy and i'm considering the magnitude of this incident the amount of people that are thought to have died it seems like most people don't even know about this why has there been such a little media conference. again that's very puzzling you know if it had a few media i mean christian science monitor new york times have covered it aggressively but i'll tell you when the first stories came out there was also
a fairly aggressive pushback and we're having a couple of journalists who said that this is all overblown the number of fatalities must be much much smaller that bush has really been affected at least you know based on forensic research number by medical professionals out there but that doesn't seem to have gathered really much more press coverage and lastly just want to ask you at the anniversary ten year anniversary what hope do you have at this point that a proper investigation will be conducted into this case well i think the human rights community including importantly human rights workers in afghanistan are not going to ever give it up because there has been a careful meticulous ball and effort to document what happened to study bone fragments and other evidence and become pottle this and i think that evidence is being preserved for the time when it is publicly possible to act and if you look at things that happened and south america for instance sometimes political
circumstances help back a final accounting for a decade or two decades but me end there was an accounting and a truth to come out and i'm optimistic we'll see that in afghanistan but it's taking aggravatingly long period of time for this to come our. thank you so much for your thoughts on that that was contributing editor at harper's magazine scott morgan. well still ahead here on our team from a tortured past to enhanced interrogation of the future and i don't like you call it if you think you laugh is a little bloodthirsty because they are at least that's that anyway that story next . archie is the state run english speaking russian channel it's kind of like.
what drives the world the fear mongering used by politicians who makes decisions it's considerable breakthrough it's already pre-made who can you trust no one. is to feel it with a global mission to see where we had a state controlled capitalism it's called session so when nobody dares to ask we do our t. question more. fun fun fun fun . keeping torture alive a bill in the senate is calling for
a return to bush era torture a freshman lawmaker introduced the amendment which would under president obama's executive order banning torture as an interrogation technique the moment also aims to bring back a full classified set of torture tactics so this would deem certain forms of torture as allowed so the public isn't allowed to know what they are so why is congress so gung ho about torture and tactics blotter and truth out contributor dr jeff k. is here now to talk more about this welcome jeffrey so why are we seeing this renewed push for harsh interrogation practices. certainly rules like please political overly we were all by. so called an agent. of the bush sr urgently what it means to buy president obama and executive order of office. let me point out that i make in
my article and from. yesterday is that this dispute. covers the torture already exists and what is the whole truth to be in the center of a ship that we need and that is the group. so you're saying that and torture it already did that's what are some examples of torture that already is happening. very very few people in the press coverage of the doubt that the army field manual divides prisoners into two different groups one are the standard views and the others are people who are. were on terror detainees those who have been taken out of geneva protections and there's a special appendix or certain techniques for them as soon as appendix of the army field manual which originally was supposed to be secret but they ended up. with
a lot of republicans maybe some democrats. and this is the special techniques used for long term isolation. provision. in the sensory deprivation in. international programs that were recently called torture and said this restored survival in the british. and united kingdom agree with you there that are ready that things to that list and this list is classified so we're not really at the palace and our find out what is the what could be of tactics possibly day well the enhanced interrogation. of the military program survivalist. resistance innervation were things like waterboarding. water dowsing which was some induced type of. locking them up and off them like.
stress positions these are the. more physical. torture where is what they have in the appendix them or whether some of the psychological torture of breaking down the isolation deprivation. and so with this classified list why keep it secret why not be transparent and say come out and say this is what's happening this is what's allowed why that a big secret well i wish i knew i think that when you hear it's part of the torture the we don't know what's coming it increases things amazing. in that there. are people like senator graham and others have said. senator or the amendment you know so we don't want these people to know what's coming then they can prepare for that frankly almost all of the leads that have been available online or the other side emanuel that they used to talk about that. the
members supposedly read to prepare prepare for certainly running for a number of these different techniques they even divided up between the different kinds of treatment or abuse you might say a state police agency like the f.b.i. intelligence agencies like the cia. already know and really to hide from the american people. so these interrogation matter methods comply with international norms for example do they comply with a geneva convention. no they do not either or it's very patient methods a number of them in the army field manual that certainly do or compliant with any of it but none of these of patients from the bush cheney years there was just speaking of such as waterboarding nor are the ones that already are in in the. army field manual. which again is isolation sleep deprivation sensory deprivation
putting god black out goggles and blindfold on your most of the proper program hours on end or more which research literature statements even the members of the former secretary. showed up. because the loser nations and serious problems. in the appendix were kind of an interrogation method and so this country is doing great now when they say we have to have medical experts standing by these methods are dangerous and i want to add. sorry to interrupt you there but they have to be the arguments proponents of torture. their arguments are all in the name of safety does the us need to go this route in order to stay safe from terrorist threats. well i'm not a consultant for the american. presence but. again this is
a question if. the united states is already signed a treaty mentioned in scripture with dozens and dozens of other it says there is never a new. word for it for. it doesn't matter if there is a ticking time bomb or not this is the treaty signed by the united states government and the people in it for example look like burns and there you go it doesn't play out anyway please you already know that. when you already have a lot of information already and no one ever points to a situation. where. someone is think we're prudent burns in real life some say they may claim it. isn't there yet thank you so much for your thoughts on best that was a blogger and truthout contributor dr jeff. well the capital account is up next on our table let's check in with lauren lister to save us the agenda hi lauren what's
what is on the agenda liz we have a great over you today you know the obama administration both in washington and in his campaign are reportedly freaking out about the fallout from the euro zone debt crisis and we are going to give you all of those reasons why he absolutely should be concerned and lives why you should because a lot of banks are on the line and our guest he's gotten a lot of these crises coming and he has been crunching the numbers and he has his eye on which banks are most likely to go down both in europe and the u.s. and this is what could really be the major fallout we see from the euro zone crisis m.f. global could just be the tip of the iceberg laurin well we'll look forward to that definitely tune in for the council account with lauren lyster coming up next well that does appear now for more of the stories we covered go to our team dot com slash usa and check out our new to page with you through dot com flashcard to america you can also follow me on twitter at live wall the capital account with our